About the Farrell Sports Business Podcast
Interviews with news makers from sports business to talk leadership, entrepreneurship, industry news and their unique career paths. Hosted by Matt Farrell, President of Farrell Sports and former Golf Channel, USOPC, USA Swimming and Warner Bros.
Watch it on YouTube - www.youtube.com/@farrellsportsww
Listen in Podcasty Places - Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio and more
Episode Summary
Episode 21 of the Farrell Sports Business podcast - Host Matt Farrell talks with Amitabh "AJ" Jain about the rapid growth and entrepreneurial opportunities within the sport of pickleball and his projection of a $500 billion industry. He shares insights on the establishment of Pickleball Minds from Rally Sports Venture, the business landscape, technological innovations, investment trends, and the global appeal of the sport. Jain emphasizes the importance of collaboration among business leaders and the potential for pickleball to become a significant player in the sports industry, especially as it makes the quest for inclusion in the Olympic Games
Farrell Sports Business (00:00)
Welcome to the Farrell Sports Business Podcast where I interview newsmakers from the sports business industry, entrepreneurs, leaders, talk about their career journey, topics of the day going on in sports business. I'm the host, Matt Farrell.
This week, we're going to go back to the sport of pickleball, all from the business side of it, from a gentleman who oversees a series of conferences and leadership summits focused on the business side. We're going to talk about what he believes to be a $500 billion industry in the next 10 years, entrepreneurial efforts in the sport, business models that are growing in the sport, technology that is advancing in the sport.
And some of their upcoming conferences in Hong Kong and Dubai, and then even coming back to the United States later.
This week on the Farrell Sports Business Podcast, we're going to talk to the founder of Pickleball Minds Amitabh Jain.
Farrell Sports Business (01:14)
Amitabh, thanks for joining. So glad you're here.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (01:17)
Pleasure, Matt. Always pleasure talking to you. I'm happy that I'm here.
Farrell Sports Business (01:21)
Well, we met through pickleball minds, which we're going to talk a lot about and an event you put on in Princeton, New Jersey. but I've just, well, you know, I love the sport of pickleball. love to talk about pickleball and I really want to get into rally sports, venture and pickleball minds, but maybe just start with a little bit of your background. first.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (01:49)
Sure, but so...
Yeah, I am an engineer and an MBA by education. I spent initial six, six and a half years of my career in a couple of startups. And then I spent about 15 years in IT consulting and private equity and related businesses. So kind of a checkered career, to say. Lived in multiple cities, different places, experienced different culture, which I'm, I think that's
That's a privilege to be able to see the world and I'm happy that I'm here
Farrell Sports Business (02:27)
So some of that, like in technology, even some time at IBM.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (02:33)
Yes, I think almost 14 years with IBM in different divisions of IBM right from BPS, which is like a BPO background plus finance plus IT consulting plus application development support. So different things in the IT industry within IBM as well.
Farrell Sports Business (02:56)
So Pickleball Minds, I was fortunate enough to play a part in what I believe was the very first conference in Princeton, New Jersey earlier this spring. Just tell us what is Pickleball Minds?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (03:11)
Yep.
And it was a pleasure to have you there, Matt. So Pickleball Minds started as a concept, I would say sometime in September, October of 23. So I'll take a step back. I started playing pickleball in early 2022, figured that there are quite a few people getting interested into it. There were always lines wherever pickleball was being played. And I thought maybe
there's a business opportunity here. I, something that I remembered at that point in time, and I do remind this to everybody that I speak with, and I'll throw a question to you. Have you seen the movie, The Founder? That's the movie. That's the movie about McDonald's. Yeah, McDonald's. So in that movie or through that movie, I learned what Ray Kroc actually
Farrell Sports Business (03:59)
No. with the McDonald's. Yes, yes.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (04:11)
which made him make McDonald's what it is today and what he spotted was two things. One, there was always a line on that McDonald's store that he saw and there were always happy faces around the store.
And if you think about pickleball, I think these two elements are pretty valid for pickleball as well. Wherever you go, you see lines of people waiting to play pickleball. And people are generally happy playing pickleball. So if I just correlate that to a business opportunity, I think there's a tremendous business opportunity that is ahead of us. And I thought maybe this is where I can go back to my startup kind of work.
mindset and start something and that's how I started a rally sports venture and then pickleball Minds happened because when I started rally sports venture, I realized that there is probably a white space for business leaders in the ecosystem of pickleball to come together to collaborate partner learn and maybe there's a method to the madness that can be provided here and that's why I designed pickleball Minds kind of on
similar lines as the typical VC or PE forums that happened, which I'm sure you would have participated, many of us have participated in those. So I've been a speaker and a participant in quite a few of those. So I thought maybe there's a wide space to create something like Pickleball Minds where the finest Minds of the industry and the business leaders can come together to collaborate and partner. That is how Pickleball Minds happened. And we had the first forum in May in Princeton.
And I believe it did get some good feedback and good reviews from the people who participated and people who heard about it. And Matt, I might have shared this with you, but I think 91 % of the respondents rated five on five on Pickleball Minds in Princeton.
Farrell Sports Business (06:19)
just getting business leaders together in an emerging industry really, I think is really important.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (06:26)
Yeah.
Farrell Sports Business (06:27)
But even the name, the Davos of Pickleball, was that your creation.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (06:32)
Hahaha.
Yeah, that was my creation and the reason behind it was I wanted to create something which is seen as the most prestigious and the elite forum for people to participate in. They should be looking forward to and should feel good about being associated with and there's nothing like Davos where the World Economic Forum happens as and it's the most prestigious and premium forum in the world from an economic perspective and I thought
I can use that analogy, can use that name and say, okay, this is the Davos of Pickleball, the most prestigious and elite forum for the business leaders, for the who's who of Pickleball to get associated with.
Farrell Sports Business (07:17)
So you hit on the business side of it where that's where I want to transition to. And even I think most people know that it's the fastest growing sport, whatever, three years in a row, five years in a row. I think we all see that, but really want your perspective on the entrepreneurial side of the sport, the business side of the sport, what what's happening. And so maybe we start there of.
Are there areas of entrepreneurial growth that you're seeing within the sport of pickle?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (07:53)
Yeah.
Right, so if you think about the ecosystem of the pickleball industry, or for that matter, any sport, right, if we have to define the key business areas or the players in the industry from an industry perspective, of course, there are players which are professional players or amateur players in the center of the mix. There are investors, there are governing bodies, there are manufacturers, supply chain, there are people
from a services perspective, agencies, marketing, legal, insurance. There are individuals who are trying to create careers in the sport, whether it is the players themselves, whether there are coaches, tournament directors, referees, there are so many things that happen. And when we are in a sport or industry like pickleball, where the growth is so overwhelming at this point in time, if you just talk about the US,
as the beginning, but yeah, we can talk about the global market as well. And we have done some calculations which I should be able to share during the course of this discussion. But if we go back and think about this ecosystem of the players in the industry, I think the canvas is very broad, nascent and conducive.
What that means is that anybody in this ecosystem who has got whatever interest level or whatever capabilities or skills, I think there's a tremendous growth to happen for them. So the canvas is huge, the pie is growing. I think it's just a matter of identifying where an individual wants to play a role and utilizing that and capitalizing that and rise with the tide. So that is how I would see it. But this whole ecosystem
and the people involved everybody is interlinked and everybody is lifting each other up.
Farrell Sports Business (09:54)
So when you go back to, as you said, late 2022 or 2023 with Pickleball Minds, what did you think was going to happen with that? Anything that just you didn't expect?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (10:13)
Alright, I One thing that I was convinced about pretty much was that
there's a lot of opportunity in this space. What I personally did not know was because I was new, so to say, to the industry, right? There were people who had been associated with the sport and the business side and the governing side of this for almost decades, but maybe four or five years at least, and I was completely new. So I was hoping that I'll be able to create an impression
and a dent in the market with the kind of positioning that I thought about Pickleball Minds. And when I started talking to various people, interviewed a lot of people, created about a list of 25 to 30 teams that will be of interest to any business owner in the pickleball industry, then created the different panels and the experts that we brought on the table. One thing that I heard from most of them and that resonates
with me at this point in time is the kind of growth that people were expecting. Everybody was thinking, okay, maybe three to five years, this X will be like three X or five X or whatever. I think everybody would agree that whatever roadmap that they had or whatever they were expecting to happen in three to five years has actually happened in two years. So I think that's a big thing that is happening. Wherein if you are expecting X to happen in three years, that is happening in one year in this
sport and correspondingly the business side of the sport. So that's a positive or a good problem to have, but it's really overwhelming.
Farrell Sports Business (11:58)
That's it.
It's a good good word for it. So I mean, one, if we break that down a little bit, one of the things, and this is purely from just seeing what's happening in industry news, seeing LinkedIn post, there seems to be all kinds of just different franchises that are popping up. And, you know, most people will mention Chicken and Pickle, which I think is a phenomenal type of franchise and experience. But
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (12:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Farrell Sports Business (12:33)
There just seems to be exploding franchises across the sport.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (12:38)
across the sport, right? I think almost thousand odd franchises that have been sold in last two years alone. And I'm very happy to see the kind of growth and the possibilities that the end consumer, the individuals are getting in terms of the courts, the indoor facilities and stuff like that. And of course, competition is always good because that improves the player experience.
happy for the sport the way it is growing. In fact, when we started Rally Sports Venture, even before pickleball Minds, my first priority was to create a model or a template club which can be replicated across the globe so that we can create a huge enterprise, so to say. And by the time I could figure out the nuts and bolts of that, I realized that there are so many large
groups that have already gotten into it and maybe the place is getting a little crowded and that's when I switched my priority from creating a model club to creating pickleball Minds and I hope that worked out well but I'm very happy for the growth of the sport and I'm very happy with the kind of joy that this sport is bringing to people.
Farrell Sports Business (13:58)
It's so impressive. I mean, with that growth, you're going to see innovation in some areas. And you can take this wherever you want it to go, whether it's on the sports side or the business side, any technology innovations and advances that you're seeing.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (14:18)
So I think tech enabled services and experiences is going to play an important role as it does in any field, right? So it kind of multiplies the effect of the experience or the skill development or the entertainment aspects.
or the scalability aspects. whether a technology is enabling an easier and faster club management, whether a technology is enabling the fan engagement, whether it is enabling the standardization in terms of say ratings or rankings, all those things are going to play an important role in pickleball as we move forward because right now the standards are still getting
developed and they are all evolving. So the more involvement of the tech aspects or the tech angles into this is going to bring in more and more data, which will help in more and more standardization and refinement in the sport. So I think that's where it is going and we are seeing a lot of tech entrepreneurs jumping into this using what has been done in other sports, trying to replicate whatever can be replicated, creating
something new, which is pretty unique to Pickleball. I think right from, say, club management, fan engagement, coaching, the AI aspects in terms of skill development, it's very exciting to see all those developments and people working on some of those initiatives.
Farrell Sports Business (16:04)
So another thing that's really in the news in professional sports and even fairly recently with the NFL is even private equity coming into professional sports leagues, which is not something I would have seen 10 years ago. Where do you see investor interest perking up in pickleball?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (16:18)
Yep.
Yeah.
So we've done some calculations and I think the pickleball industry as such, and when I talked about that ecosystem of pickleball, overall the industry is going to be around $500 billion in maybe a decade, but that'll happen. So we have done a lot of grounds up calculations around that. So I know I'm throwing a big number here, but if we look at the whole ecosystem and the kind of participation that we are seeing
in this sport, both at amateur and as the professional side is also developing. I think that's the kind of number in terms of the industry size that we are going to see in about a decade's time. at this point in time, I think we all know that this sport is very egalitarian. And when I say so, is like anybody can play any time, anywhere with anybody. And I call it the four A's here.
anybody, anywhere, anytime, anybody. So this is the four A's of Pickle, which makes it pretty unique and huge in terms of the expected growth at a global level. And this number that I'm talking about is at a global level. I think whatever we have seen in United States, depending upon whatever source we use, whether we are at 15 million players or 40 million players, different sources, different numbers,
Farrell Sports Business (17:34)
like it.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (17:59)
the growth across the globe will be 10 times, maybe in five to 10 years. And we'll be surprised, as I said, some of these things have happened faster than what people had expected. I'll not be surprised if it happens faster than that, but it'll at least be 10 times before we could even really imagine the kind of growth that we'll see. So.
If I correspond that to the kind of business opportunity, the number that I'm talking about, if I talk about the investor community, I think there are three or four key areas that are of interest. One would be facilities, international facilities. And facilities could be of different business models, right? Where you talked about chicken and pickle, there are other clubs, there are country club models, there are bare -bone models, there are...
top golf type of models and all that right. So depending upon the region and what each market can absorb, there will be different models that will evolve, but all will be around the facilities development. The second would be around talent development. The third I would say would be around the leagues and the events because that is where a lot of attraction has to happen from not just the players, but the people who are going to watch the game as well. And over time, any
Anybody who is interested or who is into any sport will have pickleball as either their first or the second sport in their lives. If they think their preferred sport is tennis or cricket or baseball or whatever, think everybody would still have pickleball as their second game and there will be a of people who will have pickleball as their first game. And as we know, this sport has really opened a completely new segment which was kind of
difficult for a lot of people and the segment that I'm talking about are the people who were for some reason were not as physically active to play any other sport. They can play this sport. This is an 8 to 80 age group sport, right? So there's a whole new market segment that has been opened by pickleball, which was not really touched upon so to say. So that's another tremendous opportunity that people are looking at tapping and I think investors are
paying heed to that.
Farrell Sports Business (20:23)
are there any particular models that you're seeing develop? maybe a little, well, everything's growing faster than, than, than prediction, but in anything specific to call out from a business model standpoint that you see.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (20:31)
Yeah.
I think there's space for multiple business models to coexist. And I think there will be market for all of them.
Of course, the test of time is the biggest test. As people will keep on refining and defining and evolving their respective models for different regions, different cultures, there will be an opportunity for multiple business models to exist.
Farrell Sports Business (21:11)
about, I think both of us would consider ourselves very positive people, anything on the negative side that you see is in any weaknesses with with pickleball and you know, maybe some of that's good problems to have on growth. yeah, anything any weaknesses you see on growth?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (21:30)
Yeah.
I don't know if I want to the word weaknesses Matt or negative I don't think I maybe I will call them as gaps
Okay, so one gap, of course, that, so when we started thinking and defining Rally Sports Ventures plans and objectives and thinking of it as creating as a conglomerate, which will have its business interests in all the different aspects or domains of the game. Of course, we felt that there's a gap in terms of getting the business leaders or the knowledge and that's
Farrell Sports Business (21:48)
Okay.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (22:18)
why pickleball Minds was created and that's how pickleball Minds was born. I think that's one gap that we are trying to address with pickleball Minds and with pickleball Minds going global because most of the activities and attention thus far has been in the US market so to say, maybe 70, 80 % of all the activities that have happened in the US. But pickleball Minds is the
Farrell Sports Business (22:43)
Yeah.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (22:48)
forum that we are looking at to fill that gap that we identified. think that was the one gap that we had identified. The second point that I would like to make here is probably, I think, concerted efforts in raising the profile of the game in a consistent manner.
I think that's one piece that needs to be really addressed carefully and sooner than later because as we talk about this sport becoming an Olympic sport and a lot of stuff that has to happen around it there's a framework that I have launched which is called the 5 squares to 5 rings framework which is how we can use this to make pickle
ball or get pickleball approved as an Olympic sport over a period of time. think that coming back to that point that concerted efforts consistently to raise the profile of the game is the phrase that I'll use is the gap that we need to fill.
Farrell Sports Business (24:03)
That makes sense. How about, and I want to give a little bit of a plug for upcoming Pickleball Minds conferences and events. But just before we go there, globally, where are you seeing pockets or regions of the country that you think are ready for growth or are already growing?
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (24:32)
Okay, so see some activities and some
sports or some business ventures are generally suited for a particular demographic or a particular culture or a particular region and there are some which are beyond those kind of constraints and in that group of beyond I believe pickleball is actually somewhere in the top of that list which is beyond any of these constraints it is it has such a global appeal
that it is going to get embraced as in we have spoken about Africa, we have talked about Asia, we have seen that in Asia -Pacific, we are seeing that in Middle East, we are seeing that in Europe. I think all these regions are at a different stage of evolution, so to say, maybe they are four or five years back where the US was, and maybe they'll evolve faster than whatever happened in the US. So I think
The global appeal of this sport is going to create a 10 times growth.
in the sport in next five, six, seven years or so. I believe Asia, of course, the population is almost 10 times of the rest of the world, but Asia would definitely be leading the charge. there's going to be an explosive growth in Asia in terms of participation, both in terms of amateur as well as the professional level. So I think there will be a tremendous and explosive growth in that region, which is
waiting to be capitalized.
Farrell Sports Business (26:23)
makes sense, which maybe explains the business models growing and investors coming in and the $500 billion number. So I know you have, let's talk about where pickleball Minds goes next. I know you have an event coming up with Hong in Hong Kong that's very investor driven. What, what's the, what's the future for pickleball Minds and where could, could we attend and
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (26:31)
Yeah.
yeah.
Yes. yeah, absolutely.
Farrell Sports Business (26:52)
It's a chance to give a little shameless plug, AJ.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (26:54)
Yeah, okay. as you would have realized, as we're talking about global brand that is getting created here via Pickleball Minds, the Davos of Pickleball, and we are looking at the kind of opportunities that we are seeing at a global level, we envisaged what is called the TAP program, T -A -P, the Accelerator Program within Pickleball Minds, wherein we can help the supply and demand in terms of the businesses, whether it is
from the investor perspective or people who are seeking funds to come together in a format, which is what we are calling as the Pickleball Minds Tap program. It's like tapping the opportunity. We're kicking the time off with the Investor Summit in Hong Kong, which is going to happen next week on September 20th. And we are expecting a very good number of people who are looking at the business opportunity of Pickleball from an investment perspective.
to participate in that forum. If anybody is interested and can travel to Hong Kong, I know it's a short notice, they can reach out to us at contact at RalleySportsVenture .com or they can reach out directly to me at ajatrayleighSportsVenture .com. So that's one event that is planned. We have a full -fledged Pickleball Minds Forum, similar to what we had in Princeton. That's going to happen in Dubai on January 16th.
We'll be launching the announcement for registration for that event in a few weeks from now. And we are expecting it to be as maybe better than what it was in Princeton. So that's the goal. That's how we... So that's happening on January 16th. Then there are a couple of other international forums that we'll be announcing in due course of time. And then we'll, of course,
Farrell Sports Business (28:40)
high bar.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (28:53)
come back full circle back to Princeton in the summer of next year. So that's how we'll have a series of Pickleball Minds event and if people are interested they can definitely follow us on LinkedIn, Rally Sports -Pickleball Minds. They can follow us on Instagram and Facebook handles Pickleball Minds and they can always become members of Pickleball Minds by going to the membership page on our website www .pickleballmines .com.
So that's how people can participate or coordinate with us on various activities and events. And as always, our objective and purpose is to connect and create a forum or create a platform for people to find out ways to grow and collaborate in this industry.
Farrell Sports Business (29:45)
Well, AJ, you're doing incredible work and having attended one myself, you've already set the bar high. It's just a fascinating conversation to really look at the business side of this. And I think we'll all get out and play a little bit more. But AJ, thanks for carving out a little bit of your time. I greatly appreciate it.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (30:05)
Thank you, thank you, Matt. It's a pleasure and a privilege always to be with you and talking to you. And I think one thing if I can probably make as one of my closing comments is, in any industry, for that matter in life, we take X steps forward and Y steps backwards. And it's the difference between X and Y that defines how fast and how far we go.
My intention is to maximize X and minimize Y for the industry and I hope that people will respond, support, join forces. I think we can make history here.
Farrell Sports Business (30:47)
I love it. the first key is to start with a great product, as you said, that makes people happy. the rest is going on a great trajectory. AJ, thank you so much.
AmitabhJain-PickleballMinds (30:59)
Thank you Matt. Thanks.
Farrell Sports Business (31:02)
Again, I just really want to thank AJ for his insight. He's always so gracious with his time and is just really being a leader in the pickleball industry. So if you like that conversation, give us a follow a like on podcasting platforms, even leave us a comment of topics you'd like to hear in the future and give it a subscribe on YouTube where you can actually watch this podcast as well. So if you liked the pickleball conversation, just know
Back in the vault, we have a previous conversation with Diadem Sports on pickleball, but we also hit a variety of topics of leaders and newsmakers within the sports business from executive recruiting to sponsorship sales, to even a look at the booming business that is sports travel. So thanks again for tuning into the Farrell Sports Business Podcast. Follow along and we'll talk to you next time.
Comments