12. Mel Stewart, CEO of SwimSwam.com, 2X Olympic Gold Medalist – From the Pool to Media Company
Farrell Sports Business Podcast
Interviews with unicorns from sports business and their unique stories, dreams, ideas, insights, innovations, flops and career paths. Get a unique perspective of the inner workings of jobs working in sports beyond just pro sports leagues. Hosted by 30-year sports business veteran Matt Farrell, President of Farrell Sports and CEO of Bat Around.
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Farrell Sports Business (00:00)
On this week's Farrell Sports Business podcast, we're going to go into Olympic mode with a bonus episode. This is an exciting one because we have a two -time Olympic gold medalist who started his own media company, bit of a free spirit and willing to say anything that comes to his mind, which always makes every conversation so much fun. And for those watching on YouTube, they're going to be able to watch this picture behind me fall in real time through
got the course of the podcast, but more importantly, at the beginning of the Olympics swimming in particular, we're going to talk about the CEO and founder of swimswam .com two time Olympic gold medalist, and just an overall fun conversation and a great guy, Mel Stewart
Farrell Sports Business (01:02)
Mel, welcome to the podcast. So awesome to see
Mel Stewart (01:06)
We've talked off camera and I'm gonna say it publicly. I was extraordinarily, extraordinarily upset that you had Evan Morgenstien on before you had me. I thought that we were tighter. I thought our friendship was stronger. I saw the pod and I'm like, when's my invite coming? And I noticed that I was the silver medalist behind our circle of trust. And Evan was a gold medalist. And I was like, I don't think Matt read the memo.
Farrell Sports Business (01:36)
funny. Well, first of all, I'll own that one. Second of all, I wanted you closer to the Olympics. we'll go with that.
Mel Stewart (01:45)
That's good dodge. That's good dodge. No, I'm going to say this. We've known each other since. What were you doing in the 90s with USA Swimming
Farrell Sports Business (01:51)
to let it go. We're gonna move on.
My first event was the world championships in Perth and is that 91?
Mel Stewart (02:09)
was 19, that was my world championship when I broke the world record. And so we have history. We've got entangled roots. so I witnessed you, I knew you then and then I knew you as someone in the C -suite, as someone who was, let's just say you were an extraordinary executive who, you know how to handle yourself.
Farrell Sports Business (02:38)
Well, thank you very much. I, I appreciate it. Very kind. And it's been mutual respect since then really quick story that I was an intern. I offered, want to talk about how to get into network and find a job later that internship I offered to pay my own way and work for free at that world championships purely for the experience of it. And USA Swimming at the time said, sure, come on kid. And that's how it started.
Mel Stewart (03:07)
take your free labor.
Farrell Sports Business (03:09)
Okay, let's let's talk about swimming in the Olympics and you and your career for those who are not in swimming, maybe describe swim, swam your role with it and we'll start
Mel Stewart (03:25)
I think Swim Swam is the USA Swimming version of like, you know, if the USA Swimming was the Department of Defense, Swim Swam came out of DARPA. It was Swim Network. I worked at Swim Network and I worked, know, officially I think that my director was not you, but you were over Swim Network at a certain point. And Swim Network was the governing body's news platform.
and was a partnership with Wasserman and it was going to be swimming gymnastics track and field and to USA Swimming's credit, USA Swimming did it and it was probably Friendster in the business aspect. If you're thinking about it, like it was the right idea, it was good, it made sense, but it was just a beat too soon and it didn't quite get there and when it didn't quite get there, I took
Farrell Sports Business (04:01)
That's right.
Agreed.
Mel Stewart (04:22)
I took a chill pill for about eight months and then we launched SwimSWAM. It's 127 contributors globally reporting original news in six languages. The former EVP of Conde Nast Analytics, bless their heart, tweeted out, our analytics, 30 days trailing on the way up to trials, saying, hey, here are the winners in the Olympic news category. And it was SwimSWAM news, Associated Press was second, ESPN was third.
New York Times. So we, and we've known that since 2016 and we did, and we have, take a lot of great pride, take a lot of pride in it because it was, we do that with just reporting swimming news and not all Olympic sports. So three, three shifts of people reporting swimming news all around the
Farrell Sports Business (05:12)
So it's funny, you, you mentioned swim network in the beginning of it, and this is a longer story. I would say right idea, but we, as an NGB, you think you can be a media outlet and it's just not in their hour, their DNA. And so it didn't work for a lot of reasons, but I think at the end of the
You say you're going to cover the hard stuff. You say you're going to be fair to the rough topics, but you're not. And when it comes down to it, but in all seriousness, was that, because I wanted to ask you anyway, is that the origin of swim, swam? Where did the original germ come from? How did you start it? And I'm not asking dollars, but how did you fund it initially? And how did you get it off the
Mel Stewart (06:03)
We, you know, we, I thought for a period of time that I was going to just move over to usaswimming .org. wasn't sure. And, and if, if I had just been a little contributor over usaswimming .org, swimswam might not have started. And so we'll, we'll, I'll put that at your feet. It's your fault or it's your gift. It's, it's, it's, it's your gift. It's your gift to my wife and I,
Farrell Sports Business (06:21)
Fair. Yeah, I'll own it. I own a lot.
Mel Stewart (06:27)
So I'm coming at the aquatic market with decades and decades of relationships, lots of peers, and I know that I can sell and I have a certain skill set. And I tried to convince my wife that we should go in another vertical that paid more money. And she said, it was tech. It was a really developer heavy business.
And she gently reminded me that I didn't have that sophistication or skill and that I would get eaten alive with quality control and that maybe the media bucket was a better bucket. And that was a long, long conversation between spouses. And then we went through 500 different names for the websites. But the first name that my wife came up
was SwimSWAM. We were considering, I tried to get Swim Network to be a partner and come in as a full partner because they were a big player. so I talked to Avi, who is the majority shareholder and said, hey, come do this. And he said, content doesn't work, but we'll advertise. And hey, I own swim .com, don't you buy it? It was expensive, but we were considering buying that for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And my wife goes, why not just be
You're either a swimmer or a swammer. So 500 names, come back to swim, swam at the end of the day, 1495, we're swim, swam.
Farrell Sports Business (08:02)
What?
Mel Stewart (08:03)
That's your origin story.
Farrell Sports Business (08:05)
So mean what you've always been entrepreneurial yourself in content and other areas is swim swam. So consuming now, or do you still keep that entrepreneurial spirit in things in other projects?
Mel Stewart (08:21)
I would like to, the answer is no, it has been all consuming. My wife is a co -founder, my wife has another business. She is absolutely CFO, COO, HR, and I am somebody who, and I go get contracts. We don't eat unless I kill, and I'm out there hunting. So it's
So she has a business, we've had several businesses that have been great bread and butter businesses and Swimswam is a business that has been designed, thankfully coming out of the USA Swimming Culture, really watching you, watching Chuck, watching Anna. So I'm .001 of our content and I've been in the background. We have a magazine that's going on 10 years. I've been in the magazine once. It's a teeny picture to tell the story of how Swimswam started.
sometimes built to live without
Farrell Sports Business (09:19)
So go back to the beginnings and even today of I look at swim, swam of I'm not sure what to call it, but there's like some of these phenomenal independent media outlets that are sports specific, gymcastic in gymnastics, Citius and track and field swim, swam.
just covering the games as coming up as kind of somewhat of an independent. Did you have a rougher road when you were starting trying to even get credentials? What was the road
Mel Stewart (09:54)
And to USA Swimming's credit, think that USA Swimming as an NGB really does their media management well. The Mixed Zone's been really well managed. don't know that it... We're gonna have a real conversation here. It's been managed well on balance for as long as I can remember. USA Swimming's done an exceptional job and with cultivating relationships with writers at Washington Post, New York Times.
And that same respect was presented to me with SwimSWAM when we were nothing. So I was very grateful for that. And that really helped. You don't get the same kind of treatment at World Aquatics or at other events around the world. It took a few years. honestly, to this day, it's even bumpy today with other organizations. But USA Swimming does it well. Interestingly, at the trials
in Indianapolis, that was a bumpy road. And we can parse that if you want to talk about that later in the podcast.
Farrell Sports Business (11:03)
So I do want to talk about trials. And if you want to bring that back, great. But so you made your Olympic team in 1992, 3000 seat natatorium in Indianapolis at the time to NFL stadium.
And you've seen everything in between. I parse things into there's the competition, what happens in the pool. And then there's the event. So around it, the, event, what, what was your take on being in a temporary pool and an NFL stadium compared to other
Mel Stewart (11:39)
coming from my I when people ask me to describe my moment and swimming I describe it as You know in summer league swimming you would have your league meet and then you have a covered dish dinner like you would at a church after a church cookout I mean there was a moment where I went to US Nationals in the early 80s and We were in the covered covered dish dinner afterwards. It was it was you know, it's it wasn't a lot different
Farrell Sports Business (12:04)
Ha ha ha.
Mel Stewart (12:06)
I mean, when I first saw Matt Biondi, he was a luminary in swimming, first swim at national championships. I remember he swam. There was no waiting room. He walked up, swam and got out after he swam. And that was mind blowing to me. And like kids surrounded him. It wasn't very professionalized. By the time I went to trials, it started to become more professionalized, but it was still tiny. was crickets in between. It was a small meet
I think that you were there during the 2004 trials.
Farrell Sports Business (12:46)
Yep. no, that was in Long Beach. I was not there for that.
Mel Stewart (12:50)
in Long Beach, I saw it was bumped up. 2008, was, you I think Omaha was a big mind blowing experience. Honestly, 2008 to 2021, really, because of the pandemic, Omaha really became a well oiled machine.
in just a comfortable, it almost became a comfortable shoe. And I think that we wanted to grow for the next one. And I would say that, you know, we were shaky. It was scary. The USA Swimming did pull it off. And there were a lot of smart things that were done to, know, I think it was like making sausage in the background, but it happened. And we had to USA Swimming credit. did have a night where we had 22 ,000 ticket sales. I don't know if there were actually
22 ,000 people actually bought tickets. it works. I think it'll work going forward. And I think it's a feather in the swimming community's cap in a post Phelps
Farrell Sports Business (13:54)
It's a great way to describe it because that was certainly a draw. My times there were, gosh, in a golden era of swimming, of Phelps, Franklin, Coughlin, even just the beginning of the Ryan Murphys of the world and the Caleb Dressels of the world. it's good to see it as such a spectacle. And actually kind of sitting on the couch side
for this one trials is pretty magnificent.
Mel Stewart (14:29)
In the venue it was they were I talked to staff a lot they were they were clearly making notes and The feedback I got about it the in -house experience was they were they were fixing it trying to on the fly and making notes for the next one and 100 % got it. All right, lot of things are obvious. They're gonna move seating in closer to the pool. So there's not so much
And they've learned a lot in terms of chasing that whale of ticket sales, which was a challenge. that's not expertise, but they learned a lot in that process. So there were some things in -house that were shaky. I'm okay with someone going into a new venue and pulling it off, because you can definitely see the potential.
The interesting thing was we had some peers who were some big writers from a lot of big publications. And in the background, I don't want to name any names because I think they might be writing about it later as a debrief for the debrief of the Olympics. But the grumblings that I heard was that you've put, these are writers with 30, 35 years of experience, big audiences. You've put a swimming venue in a football stadium.
It would be great if I could get an interview rather than stand by buttstroke swimming and have the same access as buttstroke swimming. And buttstroke swimming was somebody who was a social media person who had a small following. And this writer with 35 years, and this writer with 35 years experience, a huge platform, had the same access to our luminaries.
Farrell Sports Business (16:16)
Oddly, I'm not as familiar, but...
Mel Stewart (16:27)
And that was very frustrating.
Farrell Sports Business (16:31)
Well, let's go well first of all it anyone watching on YouTube it's gonna be fascinating to watch this picture falling in real time behind me, but Paris so for the for the non swimming person I Just saw it over the over my shoulder. I'm like yeah, that's gonna that's gonna that's gonna come so we'll just be on picture watch but
the NBC content machine, no doubt about where Katie Ledecky is, but are there people or storylines that you're really watching that I think will really American general non -swimmer day to day will just really enjoy and appreciate.
Mel Stewart (17:21)
To put this Olympics into context, I would say that on paper heading into it, we look like the 1992 Olympic team, bi -Olympic team, which is the weakest we've had. And we've been stronger in 96, 2000, 2004, up to present day. However, Team USA has always had this... So we're going be fighting for podium position in a lot of races. We don't have a lot
sure gold medals or sure medals. But we do have a history of being on the ropes and performing well. And I think that we could actually do well. This is a nail biter. Medals that we think that we have in the can, course, Katie Ledecky, 1500 meter free, 800 free. Why that matters and why fans should care is because the entire narrative is going to be, this is when Katie Ledecky will officially become the greatest female swimmer of all time.
She has 10 medals, seven gold, three silver. She will, with the 800 free, 1500 free, that would put her at 12. That has her tied with Natalie Coughlin, Jenny Thompson, Dara Torres for the most celebrated female swimmers in history. And Natalie's probably going to pick up a silver, bronze, and a 400 free plus a relay medal, putting her over the edge. So this will be her crowning moment. And that's a big story. That's going to
probably the biggest story in sewing.
Farrell Sports Business (18:50)
That's great. You know, I'll call it the 2010s in particular. You're looking at the picture. I can tell. Okay. The 2010s, Australia not to the level of relevance that they had been in the past, maybe are now that rivalry really seems to be coming back over the last, call it five years, give or take.
Mel Stewart (19:00)
No, I'm I'm not.
Absolutely, US versus Australia is always fun because I think I I don't want to get it wrong, but don't quote me, but it's roughly this USA the United States is 350 million people Australia is about what 21 million. It's like Southern, California And Australia brings the talent over and over and over and right now they're in a they're on an upswing the entire you could you could you
You could say that this entire match is best represented and crystallized between Kayleigh McEwen of Australia, who's the defending champion, the 100 200 backstroke facing off with Regan Smith and the 100 and 200 backstroke, among other events. there, that's where we're going to see that Australia versus the United States really get emotional. least that's the way it's been building up on SwimSWAM. And then of course, in the relays, we felt that
relay was sort of on the ropes. didn't know what to expect because we have another big star, Caleb Dressel, who won five gold medals at the last Olympic Games and he had a mental health moment and really just tapped out for about a year while he got his head straight and really took some time for himself to get back into the ball game. We didn't know if he would do it. That was a nail biter and he showed up at trials and he did it. it's a...
I would say that our relays were on the ropes. And now as we stand, I think that our relays are going to be tough to beat in the men's. But on the women's side for Australia, I don't know how we, four by one, four by two free relay, it's going to be tough. Our medley, strong. But on the women's side, I think it's going be hard to beat Australia.
Farrell Sports Business (21:09)
So maybe the state of swimming with a little s just the sport in general. mean, yes, I'm looking at the Olympics of, okay, trials and Paris and then LA prospect of being in SoFi stadium there. What is the state of swimming like at the elite level, at the youth level? Is it in a good place? Is it, is, is, is it growing? How what's your outlook just on the state of the sport, if you
Mel Stewart (21:38)
I think that we've, in all fairness, we've struggled out of the pandemic. And the reality is, you're in business or you're in this industry. When everyone stopped swimming, a lot of pools around the country were without swim teams and aquatics directors went, wow, this is kind of nice. We don't have to deal with that programming anymore. So when the teams came back, they said, no, we're not going to have you back. So capacity for clubs went down.
And it is literally going to take, we're looking at until like 2026 before we can build that capacity back. So there's a struggle there and that's real. Another standpoint is there's probably some grievances between the coaching community and the governing body itself. And that's been brewing for a few years and coaches have always said they were going to move to the AAU.
which is where swimming used to be pre -1980. It was AAU until 1979. We switched to USS and that became USA Swimming. For the first time in many, many decades, coaches have actually taken the AAU option. USA Swimming was down 4 .6 % on registration. And if anyone did their homework or made a phone call, they would know that it went to AAU. swimming is an unusual situation where inside the Olympic ecosystem,
We've got to go to coaches and clubs and make the case for USA swimming and services and support. And that's going to be the focus probably for the next year, 18 months post Olympics.
Farrell Sports Business (23:23)
Well, sometimes you get so focused. think of USA swimming, USA track and field, whatever you think of the Olympics, but at their heart, it's a grassroots youth sports organization. And some of those decisions, at least in my time were made based on insurance coverage. And it was less about my kids trying to make the Olympic team. They didn't care about the Olympic team that that wasn't in their field of
But what they pay per head for insurance coverage, coverage for slip and fall on the deck. That's very impactful to a, a swim club or a coach. So
Mel Stewart (24:00)
USA Swimming wanted to, has wanted for a long time, it's been discussed for a long time to have registration at the website. And you want to control that information, that data. There's an argument to make for that because we had the abuse scandal and we got past that with SafeSport and an outside agency, and that's largely been taken care of. It works. It's almost like having our own USADA.
Farrell Sports Business (24:10)
Yeah.
Mel Stewart (24:27)
or world anti -doping or, you know, it's US anti -doping. So we have this separate agency that can manage that. But it's, yeah. Yeah, this is a, we're in a bit of a tough spot. The insurance topic is really interesting. So we took registration back to USA Swimming and we wanted that for a while. When we tried to do
We went from 56 LSCs paying a check -in based on registration to 330 ,000 people registering. So we went through a mini, mini month period where we weren't sure if athletes were insured. We had coaches on deck saying swim. And you have to be registered to have insurance. it was, we've had a bumpy
Farrell Sports Business (25:18)
Yeah. Well, let's look forward a little bit. I want to give you the last word, shameless plug, something on your radar, personally, swim swam. What's next? What's something I didn't ask?
Mel Stewart (25:35)
I Think we're moving into an era where it's it's very very clear that we're it's
I feel like our government and all powers that be have sort of abdicated power to Silicon Valley. And tech is taking everything over, whether you're a television network, a film studio, or your, you know, it comes down to the San Francisco Chronicle. And that is, that's kind of scary. And in my world, the only option is to be overwhelmingly number one and be the best. I don't know what things look like on the other side when...
when these technological behemoths have everything. And the case in point is we're going to watch this Olympics, but I don't know what the numbers are going to be. The ratings are going to be for NBC Peacock because I think a huge part of that audience is going to interface on social and that's great and that's fine. But it's NBC that pays for the rights, that pays the budget, that pays the IOC, that pays the US OPC. And as an old school
that concerns me. I'm concerned about future revenue.
Farrell Sports Business (26:44)
No, you know, they'll probably benefit TikTok you know, benefit from TikTok and everything, but how's it driving viewership back on the mothership? Yeah. I think it's, you can't ignore it. And so you kind of hope you convert
Mel Stewart (26:55)
We used to have
A lot of people at SwimSWAM, a lot of people on our team get frustrated because they're young people and they want to use media. And I have to tell young people that doesn't belong to us, that doesn't belong to us, doesn't belong to you, someone owns that, they have rights to that, and that's how they earn money. And that's what supports.
Farrell Sports Business (27:25)
Well, well, Mel, if anything, I knew coming into this conversation, I knew it was not going to go as planned and it has not, but it's actually part of the beauty of my relationship with you and I love it. So thank you so much.
Mel Stewart (27:41)
We're going to do this. We're going to, I want to come back on and I want to talk about just how, you know, something interesting where we can, where it's, it makes sense and dogs don't bark and paintings don't fall.
Farrell Sports Business (27:54)
You got it. You're in Mel. Great to see you. Thank you, sir.
Mel Stewart (27:58)
Good to see you
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